My argument strongly reflects that of Montesque:
The Spirit of the Laws by Baron 'de Montesque wrote:
Democracies can be corrupted in two ways: by what Montesquieu calls "the spirit of inequality" and "the spirit of extreme equality" (SL 8.2). The spirit of inequality arises when citizens no longer identify their interests with the interests of their country, and therefore seek both to advance their own private interests at the expense of their fellow citizens, and to acquire political power over them. The spirit of extreme equality arises when the people are no longer content to be equal as citizens, but want to be equal in every respect. In a functioning democracy, the people choose magistrates to exercise executive power, and they respect and obey the magistrates they have chosen. If those magistrates forfeit their respect, they replace them. When the spirit of extreme equality takes root, however, the citizens neither respect nor obey any magistrate. They "want to manage everything themselves, to debate for the senate, to execute for the magistrate, and to decide for the judges" (SL 8.2). Eventually the government will cease to function, the last remnants of virtue will disappear, and democracy will be replaced by despotism.
[source]
In rereading this, I have realized that both of these things are happening to the US at the same time. The first is already happening, with the "Top 1%," and indeed, almost all Americans; even in the "Occupy Wall Street"protesters. The last is on the horizon in the form of the occupy protesters. Those who want extreme equality.
thatguy13 wrote:
It is...
thatguy, keep in mind that we try to have quality posts on cemetech, so try to have more detailed and longer posts (I have seen some of your other posts, and they all seem to be lacking in quality or quantity...)
qazz42 wrote:
thatguy13 wrote:
It is...
thatguy, keep in mind that we try to have quality posts on cemetech, so try to have more detailed and longer posts (I have seen some of your other posts, and they all seem to be lacking in quality or quantity...) I am too lazy to actually make my own post so instead I quote people and then don't say anything new. (With the exception of your post earlier in this thread)
Edit: To stay on topic, Seana, that seems to sum everything up pretty well. The Occupy movement seems to just want a communist government, which seems bad to me at first, but I have a friend who praises the beliefs of communism, just not the way things have been in history. And it definitely feels that people manipulate the government just for their own selfish wants. We watched a move called "Who Killed the Electric Car" (Go watch it ) which illustrates that concept very well. It's basically about California's proposition to have 10% of the cars on the road be fully electric before 10 years had passed, and about the car companies forcing the government (basically) to overturn that proposition so they could make more money with the vastly less efficient gasoline cars.
seana11 wrote:
My argument strongly reflects that of Montesque:
The Spirit of the Laws by Baron 'de Montesque wrote:
Democracies can be corrupted in two ways: by what Montesquieu calls "the spirit of inequality" and "the spirit of extreme equality" (SL 8.2). The spirit of inequality arises when citizens no longer identify their interests with the interests of their country, and therefore seek both to advance their own private interests at the expense of their fellow citizens, and to acquire political power over them. The spirit of extreme equality arises when the people are no longer content to be equal as citizens, but want to be equal in every respect. In a functioning democracy, the people choose magistrates to exercise executive power, and they respect and obey the magistrates they have chosen. If those magistrates forfeit their respect, they replace them. When the spirit of extreme equality takes root, however, the citizens neither respect nor obey any magistrate. They "want to manage everything themselves, to debate for the senate, to execute for the magistrate, and to decide for the judges" (SL 8.2). Eventually the government will cease to function, the last remnants of virtue will disappear, and democracy will be replaced by despotism.
[source]
In rereading this, I have realized that both of these things are happening to the US at the same time. The first is already happening, with the "Top 1%," and indeed, almost all Americans; even in the "Occupy Wall Street"protesters. The last is on the horizon in the form of the occupy protesters. Those who want extreme equality.
Since when do the Occupy protesters want extreme equality in every respect? They just want to be able to feed themselves for Christ sake! Since when is that a radical position?
_player1537 wrote:
Edit: To stay on topic, Seana, that seems to sum everything up pretty well. The Occupy movement seems to just want a communist government, which seems bad to me at first, but I have a friend who praises the beliefs of communism, just not the way things have been in history. And it definitely feels that people manipulate the government just for their own selfish wants. We watched a move called "Who Killed the Electric Car" (Go watch it
) which illustrates that concept very well. It's basically about California's proposition to have 10% of the cars on the road be fully electric before 10 years had passed, and about the car companies forcing the government (basically) to overturn that proposition so they could make more money with the vastly less efficient gasoline cars.
Socialism != Communism
In my opinion, the Occupy movement is more of a socialist movement than a communist movement. The Occupy movement, while I don't completely understand all of its goals, seems to be the right step towards economic equality.
I was (obviously mistakenly so) under the impression that they were one in the same, and so, I usually just pick one at random to use. I think my friend has even tried to correct me on this, though I typically just shrug it off. I see that I was wrong, though. I like this quote from the article
Quote:
And they fail for the same reason: Human pervserity. Too many people don't like to play fair, and both systems only work when everyone follow the same rules.
which I think is very true. It seems that, as soon as humans can learn not to think for themselves, but rather for the good of the whole, socialism would be able to thrive.
_player1537 wrote:
I was (obviously mistakenly so) under the impression that they were one in the same, and so, I usually just pick one at random to use. I think my friend has even tried to correct me on this, though I typically just shrug it off. I see that I was wrong, though. I like this quote from the article
Quote:
And they fail for the same reason: Human pervserity. Too many people don't like to play fair, and both systems only work when everyone follow the same rules.
which I think is very true. It seems that, as soon as humans can learn not to think for themselves, but rather for the good of the whole, socialism would be able to thrive.
That's where the Government comes in.
"What is government itself but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were gods, no government would be necessary."
-James Madison
The government has the power to make sure people play fair, which FDR's New Deal banking regulations(one of things OWS wants put back in place after being slowly removed starting with Reagan) have shown can lead to decades of prosperity. We have a middle class because of what you might call socialist government spending.
Register to Join the Conversation
Have your own thoughts to add to this or any other topic? Want to ask a question, offer a suggestion, share your own programs and projects, upload a file to the file archives, get help with calculator and computer programming, or simply chat with like-minded coders and tech and calculator enthusiasts via the site-wide AJAX SAX widget? Registration for a free Cemetech account only takes a minute.
»
Go to Registration page
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum