Significant amounts of the population is lower than you think it is.
Then lost sales are lower than K thinks they are.
Let me break this down:
You think that the current amount of piracy is too little to cause a problem.
K thinks that the current amount of piracy is enough to cause a problem.
I was saying that a significant amount of people was less, not that the amount of people was less.
If the current amount of piracy is a problem, than there are enough people pirating and being sympathetic towards piracy for society as a whole to be split on the issue, not in the unanimous agreement K suggests.
If it was unanimous, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. I doubt Kllrohnj suggested that.
He did. He said right and wrong are dictated by society as a whole, and society as a whole thinks piracy is wrong. When I said right and wrong depend upon one's own point of view, and whether piracy is wrong depends greatly on your own point of view.
I think you're misunderstanding him. Society as a whole doesn't suggest unanimity, it suggests a strong majority.
If a strong majority of people think piracy is wrong, than that same strong majority of people aren't pirating are they?
From reading this, I gather that Kllrohnj's argument is that the minority that IS pirating is enough to cause an impact on the video game industry. So yes, it could be that the majority of people aren't pirating; I haven't done research on it, but that doesn't help your argument.
If a strong majority are not pirating, that strong majority is buying all their games legally, and piracy can't be killing the industry.
EDIT- let me rephrase that. If there's a strong enough majority for society as a whole to think piracy is wrong, than that same majority is more than enough for the industry to live off of.
DShiznit wrote:
If a strong majority are not pirating, that strong majority is buying all their games legally, and piracy can't be killing the industry.
EDIT- let me rephrase that. If there's a strong enough majority for society as a whole to think piracy is wrong, than that same majority is more than enough for the industry to live off of.
I'm sure my parents think that piracy is wrong, and they certainly aren't doing anything to help the video game industry. The last video game they bought was a gift when I was in high school, and the last one they bought for themselves was for a NES.
That is a good point. But at the same time, not everyone sympathetic to piracy pirates. My parents for example. So I think ultimately non-gamers would cancel each other out.
Once again with the assumptions. But who cares. You win. I'm not going to argue with you on the internet anymore.
DShiznit wrote:
If a strong majority are not pirating, that strong majority is buying all their games legally, and piracy can't be killing the industry.
EDIT- let me rephrase that. If there's a strong enough majority for society as a whole to think piracy is wrong, than that same majority is more than enough for the industry to live off of.
Two false assumptions.
1) You can believe that something is wrong while still doing it.
2) The strong majority may or may not play PC games at all. The minority of society that believes piracy is OK could very well be the majority of PC gamers.
Quote:
If a strong majority are not pirating, that strong majority is buying all their games legally, and piracy can't be killing the industry.
That is an invalid conclusion, for what its worth. I know this won't get through to you, but I figured I'd point it out anyway.
Quote:
That is an invalid conclusion, for what its worth.
Which would be why I rephrased it.
I could be wrong here, but from what I know, you simply can't have a large majority of people hate something and still have it be a huge problem. Either it's a problem because lots of people are doing it, or it's not a problem because not many support it. That being said, there are numerous other ways of obtaining software in which the developer doesn't see a penny; buying used console games for example, or buying PC games off ebay or craigslist at reduced price from someone who's already done with them. Then there's waiting for a game's price to go down, at which point the sales no longer matter to the company.
DShiznit wrote:
. That being said, there are numerous other ways of obtaining software in which the developer doesn't see a penny; buying used console games for example, or buying PC games off ebay or craigslist at reduced price from someone who's already done with them.
Yes but buying it used means the Company was already paid once for it, so how is that the same as Piracy where they never see the money.
Someone has to buy it initially to pirate it to, but the company still loses sales from everyone else getting it from that person. Granted, buying used from craigslist or ebay will only incur a loss ratio of 2 to 1, whereas piracy can be as high as 1000 to 1 on some popular torrents. It's still lost sales, albeit not as much necessarily.
DShiznit wrote:
Someone has to buy it initially to pirate it to, but the company still loses sales from everyone else getting it from that person. Granted, buying used from craigslist or ebay will only incur a loss ratio of 2 to 1, whereas piracy can be as high as 1000 to 1 on some popular torrents. It's still lost sales, albeit not as much necessarily.
See but they get paid for every copy, because the guy who bought it first cannot play it anymore once its sold where as with piracy they can keep playing it, thus your comparison is completely invalid as a used copy is still ONE copy no matter how many people have owned it only one can own it at one time.
DShiznit wrote:
Quote:
That is an invalid conclusion, for what its worth.
Which would be why I rephrased it.
I could be wrong here, but from what I know, you simply can't have a large majority of people hate something and still have it be a huge problem. Either it's a problem because lots of people are doing it, or it's not a problem because not many support it. That being said, there are numerous other ways of obtaining software in which the developer doesn't see a penny; buying used console games for example, or buying PC games off ebay or craigslist at reduced price from someone who's already done with them. Then there's waiting for a game's price to go down, at which point the sales no longer matter to the company.
Your rephrasing and subsequent elaborations are all equally flawed.
A majority is simply 51%. Lets say 90% of society is against piracy, but of that 90% only 5% play PC games. Now for the sake of argument lets say that *all* of the 10% that are for piracy are also PC gamers. You now end up with a majority of PC gamers pirating games despite the majority of society being against piracy.
Now lets expand upon that a bit. Lets say that N amount of people are playing game A. Of that, 60% are against piracy and bought the game, 20% would have bought it but pirated it instead because it was easy, and 20% pirated it but wouldn't have bought it. Lets say that the game needed 70% of the players to buy it to break even. Thus we have a simple case where the majority bought and paid for the game, but piracy caused the game to lose money.
That's possible I guess, but I don't see a majority of PC gamers being for piracy. This needs more study I think.
What does the GUI say about his fill level? IT'S OVER 9000!!! 
