What determines "attack"? I could say something that compliments one person of a certain minourity group and then say that same thing to someone else in that same group and they get offended. I think the rule shouldn't change and honestly I thought everything you pointed out was understood.

>.> can i simplify the whole speech rule down a bit.

Dont be a a. Period. done. if you think someone might dislike what you say, dont say it. PERIOD.

yes there will ALWAYS be someone that gets pissed cause you ask how the weather is where they are, thats there problem.

I think attack is a fairly well-understood term. Don't say stuff like "all women should be in the kitchen all the time" or "christians are all deluded morons" or "black people always steal" or "Jews are all greedy". I mean, come on guys, we know what we should and shouldn't be saying, right? What could you possibly say that's a compliment to one person, but another one gets offended? "You're pretty well-spoken for a black guy". Obviously not cool. We can't just say "no homophobia" specifically because then that leaves open racism, transphobia, sexism, etc. An admin already has the right to kick/ban someone for any reason anyway, but we might as well make it so if someone says something blatantly sexist and offensive that we can point at the rule and say "what you just said counts as hate speech".

Yeah maybe it shouldn't say just homophobia, but honestly I don't know if we have to be super specific with this one. Maybe just say be nice to others and don't be rude? I always felt everything you listed was understood as common server courtesy (yeah not everyone follows it but most people do).

I'd be down for that and you basically proved my point. People will get offended over something and it's different between persons, so there's no way you can cover everything in a rule because you always find something else that you have to add in and it gives the admins more work which quite frankly I would hate to see. I've been staff before; I know admin responsibility is a lot.

Yea i am leader of my guild in a couple games. There is always someone that gets pissed for nothing. i was admin of a couple forums before they shut down. it is literally impossible to keep EVERYONE happy. it just doesnt happen.

Exactly. I was staff on a couple servers, only one of which was an actual publicized public server. I had admin responsibilities even though I wasn't even moderator so I know that first hand as well.

The point isn't to not offend a single person--and in fact I'm not sure that's a rule worth having. Someone's going to do something that offends someone, like you guys said. Hell, I might I offend someone by saying something pretty innocuous like "I like cheese". Maybe someone's brother chocked on cheese and died last week, and they get offended. But that's very clearly not an attack, and it's not on the basis of attributes such as gender, ethnic origin, religion, race, disability, or sexual orientation. And being rude is something I don't really see a problem with, certainly it's not something an admin would want to kick or ban for. I'm not really sure why you guys are arguing against this being a rule, when you agree that these are things people shouldn't be saying!


Courtesy isn't codified. Again, it's helpful, as an admin (of which I am on this site, so it's not like I don't know what I'm talking about here) to have a rule to point to.

And nowhere is anyone suggesting that we do that.

I think "No cursing, harassment, or discrimination of any kind" would be a better rule.
If someone manages to work around that, then we can point at rule 9: "Any actions reported to Admins or observed by them that not covered within these rules will be evaluated and acted upon appropriately by an Admin."

It was under my impression that hate speech would be more something such as "all black people should die" and that "all black people suck" would be more like bigotry? I think bigotry would be a better term than hate speech, but then some people consider "Apple fans are stupid" as bigotry.

I hope people don't call me a hypocrite but I do agree with that statement. If we had to change that rule it should definitely say no cursing, harassment, or discrimination of any kind.

This is a discussion we don't really need to be having. No matter what the rule would be changed to, someone will think it should say something else. For now the rule is fine since we all seem to understand how to be polite and considerate and we hopefully don't have any issue calling offenders out on the spot or reporting them to staff. I'll consider possible ways for rewording the rule in the future.

This is absolutely a discussion we need to be having.

So? No matter what any of the rules become someone will complain about them. Isn't that what this thread is for: determining the rules?


Here's a rewording that seems okay--or at least a lot better than how we have it now:

I'm good with this as a compromise. I'm waving my admin/server-bill-payer badge.

I'm with comic on this one honestly. I've always felt that no discrimination of any kind was understood in the rules and I don't think it needs to be changed unless there's a growing problem and right now I'm not seeing that. In my administrative experience, I've never seen anyone be discriminatory towards anyone and the rule that covered that was "Be nice to each other." Talk about not being specific! I think the rule is specific enough and I've always felt it was an understood common courtesy to be nice to everyone. That's what I and, from what I can see, several others have tried to do.

Consider it changed to No Discrimination.

Bumping this again.

I've realized players are making these massive gold farms with the portals. I stopped by one last night and I was getting about 6-9 FPS and commands to the server (including chat commands) took roughly 2 minutes to go through. Two minutes from when I typed the line in MC to show up and 2 minutes from when the line typed in IRC showed up in MC. I realize this is an extreme case and was caused by an idle player near the farm.

I will start limiting gold farms to a more respectable output and encouraging individual players to mine and explore. I feel like the entirety of the server is just people in their humble abode getting free gold. As was mentioned earlier in this topic gold is the currency of the world. Now, what wasn't mentioned is that currency shouldn't be easily printed. Yes, the idea to replace it with a non farmable ore was suggested but for when we start a new world.

I will evaluate what it takes to run a town and how much gold different sized portals make and go from there.

As an aside-ish suggestion, perhaps disable portals/pigman spawning, but make a 'mining world' accessible from spawn (or similar place).

Basically, a world where you can go to harvest resources (gold, most importantly), but can't claim plots, and can get respawned/remade every so often to refresh the contained materials. Would encourage a PvP spirit, and encourage people to go out and risk death to gather denari.

That's where I want this to go, maybe not another world though. I realize the resources of the server are finite and the world is small so I need to allow that guaranteed income a gold farm provides.

I feel like I might be too late to the party with this gold farm limit for it to be respected by everyone. I still want to push for a server reset when we are ready for 1.8 though. I think we could have a really fun PvP server if it was moderated better from the beginning.

I very much agree with this. I believe a few aspects make it very convenient and easy, more than it should be.

I love challenges, and changing the economic to a non-farmable resource would be the first step toward making that a reality. From a pigman farm I made long ago that is long gone with ~20, 23x23 portals, it yielded up to 7 gold blocks per hour, which is roughly equal to what a good caving trip would yield if the cave system was expansive. The major difference was that I got the money for free and the xp for a level 30 enchantment by doing absolutely nothing. It essentially becomes a money printer. This is precisely why I don't use gold farming to quote prices, and I use a constant such as caving for gold to base prices and not inflate them.
I understand that people with gold farms may be more inclined to object to this because of at least the time invested into making the farm, but the output of the farm, is something I have come to realize makes gameplay ludicrously easy, and return on investment has already far more than paid off. It would be for the better of the server.

If we did choose to implement the new currency into this map, I believe an exponential decay function conversion would have to be used to neutralize the money distribution without adversely affecting anyone and making someone mad for the amount of 'work' they put in. i.e. if someone has lesser cash, the conversion scale is closer to 100% conversion, lets say if its 1 gold ingot for 1 lapis which we keep at 50d, then they pretty much get that value. As money approaches a higher value, that might deteriorate to something like 1 gold ingot for 0.2 lapis. I believe the plot would have to be a "conversion rate (new currency/old currency)" versus old currency plot, such that the function in that space is the exponential decay or some form of 1/x^n. An infinitesimal change is the rate conversion at that instant in denarii-space, dictated by the decay function, times the denarii interval. The integration from 0 to X denarii, where X is the user's balance, would yield the new denarii-integrated amount of money under the new system and would effectively flatten the effects of creating massive portal farms. Of course, I feel this system needs to be checked in accordance with how many pigmen a user has killed. I don't think a person who earned their money without a gold farm should be paying for the effects of farming gold via pigmen. Users who farmed a substantial amount of pigmen would have to compensate, in which the system attempts to put them roughly where they *should* be in the new currency system based on how many pigmen they killed.

In addition to non-farmable currency, not to AFK for even a smaller amount of money, it'd be cool to make other challenging aspects such as a higher server difficulty would force you to be more tactical and actually play the game strategically rather than being able to easily get full gear and run around not having to worry since everything doesn't even scratch you.


"encourage a PvP spirit" is what I'm liking a lot, and hope to see more of.
I've had the idea of no teleportation via "/home", "/town spawn" so it's not so convenient to box yourself in and create a 100% safe area to be teleported in and out of, since you're then forced to find adequate transportation to satisfy your needs, and challenge your mind by creating security mechanisms. This will force people out of their humble adobes (where currently they can be teleported in and out of to AFK for money), and allow risks and strategic gameplay (where higher difficulty maybe more applicable and put to good use).

This is what I think of when I see people locked inside all day on the server, if you see the reference
http://25.media.tumblr.com/a60bc5dc129e8b4925a885e11c7f461d/tumblr_mh5py1njeh1rf9wpyo1_500.gif
(the episode of Spongebob where he chooses to not leave the house because it's a dangerous world)
"This PvP map is awesome [from inside my safe house I shall never leave]"


I feel 1.8 would be too soon though, assuming it is available for the server based on plugin statuses within a few months. There is a lot of building in progress that hasn't had time to reach its fuller potential. I say this at least from my own experience, having quite a few plans for my own town and large-scale builds in-progress and to-be-built. I feel 1.9 or about when the map reaches about twice its current age is when it'd be more fitting. There was talk about 1.8 map expansion to allow for more, and newer resources to be found.
At this point, I think this update to 1.8/1.9/x.y talk and talk about possible changes to the map or map reset should possibly be discussed here
http://www.cemetech.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9882
since there's been some talk there.

By imposing a limit to either gold farming or by switching to a non-farmable currency, commands that have an associated cost have more have a weight behind them. Our amazing rail system is under utilized in favor of town spawn and home commands because the cost of using them is far too low to the amount of revenue which is generated. We can't raise prices because those who don't have massive gold farms won't be able to afford to teleport.

I want users to explore the server but it's hard. I've been placing chests around the server and leaving clues around to try and encourage exploration, which works, but the hard part is really putting in incentives. I can't use gold because it's so common/easily obtainable.

I'll contribute to the MC Server 2.0 topic!

So once again, this topic is relevant. There is a lot of posfing activity in the 1.9 discussion topic that should be over here; and through writing my below posf, I decided that this topic is the best place to put it.

The majority of the players came to Cemetech a freebuild survival server back in the days of 1.5 and 1.6, and the change to PvP has alienated many players. Additionally, Cemetech has a streak with not killing players in a PvP environment; instead, we work way too hard at exploiting glitches and taking advantage of naive players to achieve what should have been achieved through combat. This led to escalation of minor issues to the point where it is simply impossible to separate Minecraft and forums. Faith in many players was lost, and behavior on both sides led to this distrust carrying over to the forums. This is not what anyone had anticipated while planning the PvP server, and the damage done is definitely not entirely reversible.

I believe several people had stated it in the 1.9 topic, but PvP by default needs to end. When I say "by default", I mean that players are forced to fend for themselves with no guarantee of safety. This strongly discourages freebuild. Theft from chests also discourages building. The most effective solution that has been used is the cobble box method of town security, which is basically the opposite of an aesthetically pleasing build. We won't be having another map full of awesome builds if there is risk of griefing.

The 1.5/1.6 server achieved a nice balance of building protection and player freedom. PvP activities were permitted with consent, yet theft was still not allowed. Instead of forcing users into a new paradigm, we can take the benefits of both the 1.6-style and 1.8-style Cemetech server environments. Many players liked the PvP paradigm, enough to allow for the system to continue within its current player set. However, the vast majority of players from the TERRA nation alliance have left the server as a result of the PvP events and mentality. These players would benefit from build, death, and resource protection that the current 1.8 environment does not offer.


The "PvP-by-choice" solution is the most ideal one I have seen, and it is pretty hard to beat. There are even plugins to moderate this (ask Bosaik). Players that want to participate in PvP can simply say so, or change a plugin setting, and continue as they were. The others should clearly state that they do not want to participate in PvP, and should have their builds protected by antigrief rules as there once were in 1.6. The currency and shop system should remain, along with Towny. We should not rely on Towny to protect the non-PvP players, as not all want nor can afford a town. The PvP players, however, benefit from Towny and are effectively reliant on it for protection; choosing to be a PvP player relinquishes the protection rules can provide.

Some server policies need to be changed for both PvP and non-PvP players. Primarily, glitches should not be allowed in the first place; this includes advantageous and unintended effects a plugin provides that would not be possible in vanilla Minecraft (eg. changing spawner types through MobCatcher; we (you know who you are) had decided that this should not be allowed previously as per this rule suggestion). Horseglitch/pigglitch/whatever is simply ridiculous, along with the associated lag glitches to access normally inaccessible areas or items. While all this may seem "clever," it confuses players, selects towards certain players able to perform such a glitch due to their computer's configuration, and causes distrust of both the administration and the methods of administrative investigation regardless of how well-founded a player's claims are. It's not fair to the players that are disadvantaged by an inability to replicate particular glitch methods, and thus should not be allowed in the first place. Secondly, allowing stealing from chests not completely exposed to the environment needs to be seriously considered. It made combat extinct; why risk one's life to kill another player when their belongings can be taken from chests with minimal risk? This is where the intensity of Cemetech MC's politics stems from, the famous whodunit scenario. I'm sure the vast majority of players can agree that the politics as they stand needs to end, and chest stealing is a significant cause of this. This is, of course, only relevant for those who choose PvP. Lastly, players should be assumed to be non-PvP by default. This will settle disputes over who can kill who (non-PvP should definitely not be allowed to kill or raid from PvP players; the rest can be decided in the forums).

I cannot stress this enough: Do not wait until 1.9 to implement change. The server population will continue to degenerate so long as the current system is active. A good portion of Terrans, myself included, are not returning to the server as a PvP participant; as for my case, I have acknowledged that the Minecraft server is negatively harming both my views of other players and the views of myself, and the best way to stop a problem is to not have it in the first place. But regardless of what I think, there is guaranteed to be one truth: something needs to change fast.