comicIDIOT wrote:
Going back to making this a visually attractive server, we have to be able to keep it that way. One idea is to protect it via WorldGuard so towns don't have to protect it. We create a resource world and tie more functionality into Cemetech, you can strip mine the resource as you want world but either need Y posts on Cemetech to build outside a town or purchase a permit. Of course, you could get around that by extending your town to the build site, build, then sell those plots/chunks back to the server. But I'm not too keen about a resource world as our currency will likely not be farmable (circling back to the quest suggestion).


If we're going to have a visually attractive server and visually attractive towns, we shouldn't allow griefing. This goes back to the prevalence of cobble box security in the PvP world. Town security isn't pretty. Cemetech in the 1.5 era was much better looking than the PvP world; for aesthetics we should follow the 1.5 model.
Hello CVSoft! If you take away griefing, then you take away a lot of fun in the game... By griefing do you mean killing players and destroying other people's property, or do you just mean destroying other people's property?
Cheeze wrote:
By griefing do you mean killing players and destroying other people's property, or do you just mean destroying other people's property?


Killing other players is considered PvP which we discuss on the first page. Griefing would be destroying others creations and the wilderness landscape. The current server has rules about wilderness grief but nothing against creation grief. In 1.9 we would certainly prohibit both counts if we go for an attractive server.
I've not joined the Cemetech server before, but I'm definitely interested. Having said that, I'm no Minecraft expert, and I've not participated in any PvP before. I have no beef with getting shanked by other players, as long as it's not "griefing", eg. killing multiple times in a matter of minutes.

If there are rules in place regarding "no destroying other peoples' creations", "no stealing from chests", etc. then count me in Smile
I think those are rules we'll hammer down later. But on the current server those things are not prohibited.

Speaking as an admin again, if we shy away from a PvP-focused server I'd certainly like to bring on some moderators to the server. The admins on the current server are kept to mostly me (and Kerm where applicable) since I decided not to play on that version of the server. But with the proposed removal of PvP as a mechanic, there is an opportunity for moderators. This isn't a call for mods, please don't post about your interest in being a mod. If applicable, an appropriate topic will be made.
comicIDIOT wrote:

I also like Qwerty's idea. I feel like that's something that would more benefit the rich as it sounds like it's a block to block conversion. If it was one diamond for a stack, that might be sensible.


Diamond reinforcement is actually the highest level of protection that plugin offers. It's expensive enough that the only construction-related use for it that I've seen is in making high security storage vaults, which are likely to be outrageously expensive to construct no matter what the constraints of the server are.

Stone and iron are the two "common" tiers that most people use instead. Producing a single stone block or iron ingot for every block you place in a structure is much more feasible in my experience.
ComicIDIOT wrote:

I'm also inclined to follow Monkey's suggestion of customizing the map. Personally, I think it'd be awesome if we had high cliffs and oceans over most of the map and the denizens of the server created extravagant bridges. It'd make for an attractive server. How do we allow the players to build such things?


Monkey0x9 and I talking over various aspects of custom terrain generation and been experimenting and researching the possibilities. Default terrain generation can be good, but it's not news to anyone. Custom terrain generation would make the server a little more unique and possibly cooler. Here's a link Monkey0x9 showed me that might give a little inspiration. It doesn't have a wide variety of presets people have made, but a few might spark ideas/motive. http://worldpresets.com/presets/
I personally feel some of the cooler terrain generation that isn't amplified, would be terrain which has a very good balance between flatter areas and mountainous areas, but the mountainous areas are a bit more hilly and taller than usual. You can also likewise make oceans deeper and more complex so it becomes more like the real world. I say all of this because, if we're to debate between regular terrain and amplified terrain generation, then I feel that regular is just a bit too cliche and boring, and would like some excitement aesthetically. I can understand what people have against amplified, and it's respectable. So having this balance between some great hilly/mountainous regions and some flatter regions would keep things more interesting while still relatively convenient for those who dislike the inconveniences of amplified. Ideally similar to the real world, instead of making a road directly from point A to point B with a straight path, you will encounter some obstacles in between that may force you to make a few bridges, carve a few caves out of a hillside, or weave a road through a winding valley bottom between a couple big hills.

I feel that the current map with default terrain generation has large enough oceans, and even too big of oceans on top of the lack of a few biomes. If we altered the setting on the custom world generation to create biomes that are a little bit smaller, we'd still have relatively good-sized oceans to promote making bridges between places, and have greater biome-diversity for a given map size, ideally larger as discussed. We could even raise the sea level by a couple to few blocks just to get the oceans to be slightly larger, and rivers to be more dominant, rather than choppy like they usually are.

ComicIDIOT wrote:

We insert quests which offer monetary reward like Chaurslilsis recommended. On top of player shops and a spawn trading post (stacks of dirt for money, etc) we could very easily replace gold as a currency. Also, organized fights in the arena could have a buy-in and winner takes all. Additionally, players who want to watch can pay for a seat which also contributes to the winners pot. This is something we can fine tune later.


I favor more server/community competitions/activities in general which may or may not for reward case by case. I enjoy stuff like the scavenger hunts which ties into quests.
Additional activities such as arena tournaments, UHC events, Abba Caving tournaments, etc would all be other cool examples of fun competitions that offer rewards for winning, and would encourage more server activity.

ComicIDIOT wrote:

To promote building, we disallow teleporting with the exception of /home and /spawn. It'll encourage the use of server provided transportation and roads. Perhaps our rail system is used but I feel like the whole server just teleports to another player.


At least getting rid of the ability to teleport to other players, and eliminating town spawns would definitely allow more frequent usage of ground transportation, and even encourage people to forge paths for everyone and contribute to the overall look of the map and add details that add up.

ComicIDIOT wrote:

I've placed empty chests around spawn and I've heard of people finding them but if we're going to have a nice spawn and semi-creative (not that kind of creative) server, we should at least explore it. To continue about spawn, I feel like our current spawn is too compact for the amount of structures and exploration provided within. We either need to make protected spawn smaller or spread it out.


I am a huge fan of pouring out everything we got into making an amazing spawn that will make people be amazed and encouraged to explore it and contribute to the map in general, and would say that especially if the tendency is to get more people to help make it on this next update, then we ought to make it bigger and spread it out. We should eventually come up with a biome and theme to agree on, and have a creative-freebuild phase where whitelisted people are allowed to come on and help build it before the server is opened to the public (just like how we did for this map). It would also be a cool opportunity to make a lot of easter eggs for people to find and even be rewarded by.
comicIDIOT wrote:
To address duplicate accounts. This is something I've been thinking of and would love to hear opinions. Kerm has expressed to me that we should go back to a whitelist if we reset the server. I disagreed and came up with a counter: Forum registration. There's other servers out there that do this and I feel like we can benefit as well. For one, it'll ensure all our players have a Cemetech account to participate in discussion. Secondly, the user just types in their Minecraft ID into a new field, aka verifying their account, and they are no longer a guest on the server - similarly, Freebuild requires a Cemetech account. I've been thinking of other ways to tie the forum with the game as well, such as requiring X amount of posts to start a town rather than charging currency.

I understand that you want to promote the forums, but I think requiring a Cemetech account isn't the best way to do it. None of the people that I have brought to the server have a Cemetech account, and none of them would have ever joined the server if they also had to join the forums. I think that making this a requirement would overall discourage the use of the server, and possible forum members in the future.

Also, how will that address duplicate accounts? Would that limit one Minecraft account per Cemetech account?
charlessprinkle wrote:
Monkey0x9 and I talking over various aspects of custom terrain generation and been experimenting and researching the possibilities. Default terrain generation can be good, but it's not news to anyone. Custom terrain generation would make the server a little more unique and possibly cooler. Here's a link Monkey0x9 showed me that might give a little inspiration. It doesn't have a wide variety of presets people have made, but a few might spark ideas/motive. http://worldpresets.com/presets/
I personally feel some of the cooler terrain generation that isn't amplified, would be terrain which has a very good balance between flatter areas and mountainous areas, but the mountainous areas are a bit more hilly and taller than usual.
I have a lot more to reply to in this post and this topic, but I just wanted to mention that I was looking through some of the options at that link, and I thought that this seems to fit the vision well:

http://worldpresets.com/?post_type=world_preset&p=644
KermMartian wrote:
I have a lot more to reply to in this post and this topic, but I just wanted to mention that I was looking through some of the options at that link, and I thought that this seems to fit the vision well:

http://worldpresets.com/?post_type=world_preset&p=644
Wow, that does look really nice!
KermMartian wrote:

I have a lot more to reply to in this post and this topic, but I just wanted to mention that I was looking through some of the options at that link, and I thought that this seems to fit the vision well:

http://worldpresets.com/?post_type=world_preset&p=644


I went on that website and tried running a few of the best presets available, and it seems that one ("Mountains and Plains") is the better of them, getting both a feel for some of the amplified features, and the regular terrain generation. It really acts as a compromise between those who prefer one or the other and makes for something new and interesting.

Vv Cool screenshots! vV
http://imgur.com/a/JS1d9#0
You'll get a feel of both the amplified features and the normal terrain generation looking through these.

Much of the terrain is very even and relatively easy to traverse through, and you'll get some big mountains here and there that can go to build limit and have various leveled plateaus. Additionally, I like the fact that in this one, the deep oceans can go down as deep as a little above bedrock (~y=10 versus 30 in standard terrain generation), and the underwater terrain is much more interesting.
I have a suggestion. First off, I will say, as others have also posted, the politics on the 1.8 server have gone too far. Certain quotes said or things done, while perhaps not intended this way, have come out as a direct attack on a player or group of players.

As for PvP, I am the type that doesn't care about being killed, so long as it is a fair kill. That means, if we are fighting and you kill me, great! All power to you. But if I am building, AFK (this includes camping my AFK point to kill me as soon as I return), or otherwise prevented from returning fire, I don't believe that is a fair kill, nor should it be allowed to stand.

That being said, I love PvP. The game mobs are sadly not challenging, and without the benefit of an AI mod, I enjoy the added challenge of having to defend against players. However, I don't enjoy having to watch my back every time I am building or boxing in to go AFK.

So I have a suggestion: when/if the server resets, have a period of a few months during which all PvP on the server is turned off, during which players can gather resources/develop towns. Then, on an agreed upon point in time, turn it on. All players should be on an even footing then.
To rehash what a LOT of people have said (cags, charoun, CV, frozen, tim, etc.)....

The politics on this server are absolutely out of control. Granted, I've not played on a ton of servers, but I've seen a decent amount. I've played on several PvP/factions servers that never got like this. Friendly PvP is one thing (and something I'm very in favor of). Camping player locations, attacking people who are building/unarmored/AFK/otherwise unable to defend themselves is not (and never will be) fun, rewarding, and/or in good taste.

I've seen PvP servers with impressive builds. I've seen PvP servers with a friendly userbase. Main thing was people weren't wandering the map hunting people, raiding towns, waiting for people to appear and kill them, and plotting vendettas. They'd have their groups and they'd set up regular PvP matches (including attacking towns and the like), but it would be in a generally fair and controlled environment. Nobody had to worry about a player in full enchanted diamond gear showing up while they were building a house. Nobody had to worry about stepping away from their computer to grab a bite to eat or answer the phone and coming back to a 'you died' screen and all their stuff gone.

Mind you, several builds were in the wilderness and never got touched. Gentleman's Rules were the thing (they all boil down to don't be a jerk to other players). People were mature enough to take that step back and say to themselves "Hey, it's a game, we're all here to have fun; maybe I shouldn't be a jerk."

It's sad to say it, but I doubt a number of players on the cemetech server (in both A-E and TERRA) are mature enough to play in such a fashion.

-----------------------

As far as server economies go.....

I don't think this is the core of the issue with the server, but it's definitely a bump in the road. Again, I'll reference other stuff I've seen, namely two forms I think might be workable.

I've seen servers with a spawnshop selling EVERYTHING available in the game, and also buying EVERYTHING at half the price it was selling it for. Granted it was a non-PvP server. Easily obtainable (especially renewable) resouces were very cheap (say 10 cents to buy a dirt block and 5 cents to sell it), while others were much more expensive ($1000 to buy a diamond, $50K for a nether star). From what I observed, it was a balanced system that allowed people access to a variety of materials, as well as a variety of ways to get money ('shall I go mining for diamonds to sell at $500 a piece, or sit farming gold ingots to sell at $20 a piece?').

I've seen servers with limited spawnshops selling some basic gear and building materials, but wouldn't buy anything. Money was earned by killing mobs, and getting a certain amount per mob. This system could most likely result in a similar farming situation that we have at the moment, though you wouldn't be able to just sit there and let mobs fall and collect their drops to sell.

----------------

And on to a new map......

Personally, I'd be in favor of a restart. Although I'll be devastated to see my beloved Pandemonium (which isn't even finished =( ) be no more, a fresh start would heavily level things out. We'd all be back at square one. I like the amplified map, but find it very difficult to traverse. I'd love to see a larger map (though dunno server limitations). Big biomes might be a bit excessive, especially if the map is around the size of the current one. I'd rule in favor of either a standard or customized world. If custom, I'd love to see some oceans and rivers (water transport ftw?). Maybe some dramatic sea cliffs like comic said, though they can be made with the appropriate time and effort.
Towny doesn't reference UUID's, so name-changing residents might find themselves homeless.
Weregoose wrote:
Towny doesn't reference UUID's, so name-changing residents might find themselves homeless.


I don't understand who you're replying to.
I don't think he's replying to anyone, but Towny breaking might be more significant in another thread since it affects 1.8 also.
Does towny or some other mod support town PVP protection. For example:

Town A and Town B form. For a time, of like a month, PvP is disabled in both towns. After a month, it turns on, allowing those players to raid/attack each other.

Town C is formed a month later. Town C gets a month of PvP protection. However, a player from town C going to raid a town w/o PvP protection can be killed while out of town.

That might be a fair system to implement.

Also, if there's some sort of system for building permits, if someone sort of activated a "permit" on a plot, then while a town member is in that plot, they are protected from PvP until the permit expires.

Would a system like that be even remotely possible to implement?
ACagliano wrote:
Would a system like that be even remotely possible to implement?


I'd wager that it's possible but we'd either have to make custom plugins or get permission from the authors to modify their plugins. The permit plugin, as you describe it, might be a little more involved though.
Weregoose wrote:
Towny doesn't reference UUID's, so name-changing residents might find themselves homeless.
In fact, we had our first instance of this today. Could lead to some interesting effects if the mayor of a town renames himself. Very Happy
I noticed that as well. So Mojang is allowing users to rename themselves now? I might just do that >.>
  
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